Forum Activity for @Colin Green

Thanks for the thought Jeremy. The moisture could be handled with appropriate filters. But the chocolate setting inside the spray head is a worry! I have researched spraying quite a bit and what is really needed as I understand it, is not so much a "spray" as a "stream" pushed out with compressed air. The spray itself, when it can work, is pretty messy and you geta chocolated coated room. However, that is second-hand and I am very much trying to learn.

In fact Selmi have a nice unit - but it runs on electronics that are buried in their pan which is not cost-justifyable for me.

Colin

colin....

i tried a spray gun from the hardware store. I thought it was going to be a brilliant idea. The problem is that the spray head is not heated so the chocolate mixed with the cold air under pressure sets up inside the spray head.

Plus... when compressing the air, you are introducing much unwanted moisture.

Bottom line...

It doesn't work...

-Jeremy

Thinking it through the spray would not have much capacity hence choc thickness for a decent load and it would also cool quickly so the chocolate would lose temper. Not sure how vital the latter is given that I'll pan anyway where the chocolate tempers due to agitation. Just thoughs. The reversible pump/auger could be important if I am changing chocolate? Dark/Milk/White? I have a domestic power supply but there are devices that "make" 3 phase power if needed I am told.

As you say, the option is inexpensive enough to try and discard if it doesn't work. I remember that the volume of chocolate can be regulated from very thin to relatively thick. Depending on what your needs it could take less than a minute per pan. That has to be faster (and less damaging) in volume than what you're doing now.

The FBM Prima comes with a reversible pump/auger as a standard feature. The reversible pump requires 3-phase power to operate. If you have single-phase power, the pump/auger only operates in the one direction. There is the option to make the pump/auger removable. This is not necessarily something you'd do every changeover, but it is a good part of maintenance.

Gee - you are an innovative man Clay! I wonder now if this could be my entry point. I believe that even if I can enrobe I will also need to pan to get that lovely round shape and thickness of chocolate. The spray option is cheap enough to try and discard if it's a problem. I have responded back to Giuseppe so let's see what he says.

I do wonder if there would be enough chocolate if I sprayed and if it would be a very slow process. Have to think on that!

You mentioned earlier about there being a reversal option on the Prima for an additional payment. Why would one want to reverse the process? Just so I understand!

Thanks again for your help

Colin

Colin:

I got the photo of the pieces you sent and I am waiting to hear back about whether or not they will fit. Some of the blueberries look like they might be a tad small. That said, an enrobing line is going to offer superior throughput over the modified panning you use when you consider that it's a two-step process (coat with tempered chocolate, then pan).

A quick Google search on "chocolate spray gun" returned this result from a US web site for Kerekes (bakedeco.com) for a device from Campbell Hausfeld for US$365. I've seen these in use in Europe so I am confident you can find them in 50Hz current suitable for Oz.

Thanks for the thought Edward. My pan is 15Kg (about 33lb) and although I have to do a deal less when doing the strawberries it's still about 8Kg - and indeed I want to buy a bigger pan to do a lot more. The pan at that size crashes the product down quite hard and it breaks and/or the chocolate breaks off and the product beneath starts to come away too. That is not the same issue on a very small pan.

I only temper the couverture to apply it to the first layer - the "quasi-enrobed" layer which is what I am trying to find a cure for. The final layer tempers itself with the movement of the chocoate - at least so I understand it. I'm learning REALLY fast!

I do like your thought on the a/c with the mask! I have tried that myself and I'm going to try again. Last time I didn't have a large enough pipe and the air didn't get through and it was not cold enough either (rated at 18 degrees C although it gets colder than that).

Now I am battling relative humidity too which seems to be a trade-off between temperature and R/H. Aaaahhhhh!!!! Needs to be low to get a decent polish on the panned product. I mention this as where I live the humidty is too high to take it into the hallway.

You are clearly an innovative person! Love your thinking!

Thanks for your help

Colin

What about spraying the fruit with choc/c.butter via an airgun to get a good coating on it, then panning it?

I have the D+R panning jobbie (K.Aid attachment) That I use all the time. I have a cheap air conditioner that I have rigged up with a "mask" and 4" dryer hose. I direct a stream of a/c air into the machine and have very short panning times. In the winter, I wheel the mixer+panning pan into the commercial hallway of my bldg, which is usually around +10-+15 celc. during the winter months.

The couverture doesn't need to be tempered, I keep mine in a large squeeze bottle in a pan of warm water, one good squirt every few minutes.........

Hi Clay,

You have emailed me too but I'll comment here in case it helps others too.

I think that the strawberries and raspberries will be OK on a belt - they are large enough but I will measure and respond.

You HAVE hit a nerve on the spraying process too as I'd like to be able to spray into my coating pan. But spraying units seem to be about $35,000! Is there a (MUCH) less costly way to you know?

Now you have me thinking about paint sraying systems from the hardware store. Wonder if that would work? Any thoughts please?

Thanks!

Colin

Colin:

It seems like the problem is to cover the fragile product with enough chocolate so that it survives the panning process. I don't know that it's possible to put the product on a conventional enrobing belt as the product seems like it would be so small it would fall through the belt.

I wonder if spraying chocolate will work?

You can spread the product to be covered on a sheet pan (shake), and then spray and coat. When the chocolate is set (moments), you can use a spatula to loosen the items from the tray and turn them over. Repeat the spraying/turning process until coated enough to withstand panning.

Does anyone have thoughts on "manually enrobing" product please?

I am panning freeze dried strawberries and I'd like to do raspberries and too and they are very fragile. Simply panning does not work - the fruit breaks up and it's a mess.

I have made a batch of the strawberries and they are sensational and I'd like to do the raspberries too. The way I did the strawberries was to temper some milk chocolate and pour the chocolate through the fruit while mixing it around. Then placing it all on trays. Then I pan the resultant product when the chocolate is hard. The "enrobing" takes AGES to do and is not really commercially viable (I sell it in markets). Also if I leave a spot "unenrobed" that breaks apart in the pan - messy messy.

The above does not work for the raspberries as they are even more fragile.

So I'd like to enrobe - but the eqipment is really costly (I have asked about machines in another forum so maybe I'll get some guideance there too).

So I am wondering if there is a better way that someone might know of please?

Thanks Guyz 'n Girlz!

Colin

So cool to hear Antonino! I too am considering three phase. I'm planning to use a three phase converter which plugs into single phase.

I'll be watching out for your post. Good luck with it all!

Colin

Machine just arrived, waiting for engineer to get my 3phase electricity up and running.

The Compatta is already in and it is a bomb!

Antonino! I am bursting to know how you went with your Unica Enrober! Do tell! Colin

How exciting Antonino! I will be VERY interested in your thoughts!

Colin

update!

my enrober Unica is finally arriving on monday, soon pics and review!!!

Breakdown is a breeze, I have two tempering machines and one enrober. Switching the enrober from one tempering machine to the other is a 15-minute job, tops. If you only had one tempering machine, an extra kettle would make it almost as easy to switch.

As far as service, anyone with a little bit of mechanical skills can easily service one of these units. No complex parts here!

On average, we do 180 pieces/hour on this machine.

Cheebs,

We do mainly molded bonbons but are looking to produce more enrobed. How has your Hilliard been for service? any problems. ALso how easy is it to break down and switch couvetures, really? We have not entertained the idea of a small scale enrober, simply because it seems as though it would take more time to setup and break down the machine than it would to have 2 people hand dip 1000pcs.

I haven't run across anyone near us with one in use to see in action.

-Christopher

Thanks Antonino. I would REALLY appreciate that!

Do you know when you will receive the systems?

Colin

Hi Colin,

i ordered a Unica 25kg and a Compatta 12kg.

i used to work in a shop many many years ago and we used to coat 100's of truffles in one go.

i just run them trough the enrobing belt and once on the other side, just "touch" them to give the "spiky hand rolled look.

Me and an assistant, we used to make few thousands of it in this way.

In my calculation, we could do about 5000 or more pieces a day depending on what and how we decide to do it.

Will keep posted!

Antonio, this I find REALLY interesting! Which FBM have you ordreed? And am I right in reading that you bought it as, as a result of your prior experiences, you deemed it to be straight-forward, fast to set up and easy to use?

Your tale of the 2000 truffles is a little of what I am a little concerned about. That I may not be able to do quantity.

I'd really like to hear how you go once it arrives and you use it please.

Thanks for that!

Colin

David, these are the things that worry me. I am semi-blind with this as I don't know enrobers and I have to imagine things that can be a problem. So your thoughts are really helpful. I do need something that is easy in all points including cleaning, set-up, no especially finicky bits such as you describe with the wax paper feed. And as there will be no-one to show me (although maybe I can find a set-up near me with a friendly owner) I'll needto be able to "get it" reasonably quickly.

Thanks!

Colin

Thanks for this Cheebs. I am indeed looking at the Hilliard 6 inch enrober. However it strikes me that it may be TOO small. I bought a small pan and a few months later it is too small for my increasing needs, although it was the right decision overall. I'll certainly take your thoughts on board although I'm leaning towards the Prima.

Colin

Just Continuing to my other reply that was cut off.

Hi Colin, i have an enrobing belt that runs with a Prefamac, and i must say that Andy is right. It takes time and put it together, and it take double the time to clean it!.
We have used once to try coating 2000 truffles in one shot and it was a disaster, we ended up doing it by hand...
Now we have ordered an FBM with dedicated enrobing belt: such belt, made by them, run in sync with the tempering machine, as all the other gadgets included (fan, cold/hot air blower, curtain etc..) on top of it it "warms up" so that the chocolate doesn't set on the wire belt and it can be taken a part to be washed in a dish washer! It runs out of the machine computer board so it should also be easy to use..
I will post more about it once the machine arrives.
Cheer
Antonino

If you want something REALLY small, try one of the HIlliard's Hand Coaters. I have one with a 3-inch belt and it has served me well for 3 years now. A LOT less expensive than any of the wheel or continuous machines, it's a perfect "starter" enrober.

Hi Colin, i have an enrobing belt that runs with a Prefamac, and i must say that Andy is right. It takes time and afford to put it together,

Thanks Andy! I'll certainly take that on board! A supplier here told me that installing one would cause me lots of problems and I'm not sure what he meant about that! Maybe I can indeed find someone local with one that I can visit. I am really interested in the Prima and I think there are a couple near me.

Colin

Enrobers are beasts with attitudes, haha! If you can visit any others with a machine I'd definitely recommend it. We have a Perfect enrober as our introduction to them and it takes quite some time to setup, attention to detail to run, and then a breakdown cycle. Go into your purchase eyes wide open and all that. :D

Thanks for this Clay. I do have your email too and will respond. I didn't know that you represented FBM. I can see that I need to read "The Chocolate Life" with a LOT more care!

Colin

Colin:

I represent FBM machines to ChocolateLife members , and the Prima is the smallest machine FBM makes that accepts an enrobing line. You don't mention what your budget is so I don't know if it will stretch that far.

In my reply to your other post related to this question, I wondered if the product would fall through the belt. One way to address that issue would be to send samples to FBM for them to look at. They'd be able to tell you in an instant if the machine could handle it. Are you interested in doing that? If so, contact me privately and I can help set this up for you.

:: Clay

Edward:

As long as you don't cut them, I would think that something like a large Silpat could be made to work - no molding required. Just slip it under the edges of the pans.

As for custom mold supplies and information, here are two great resources: Chicago School of Mold Making and Chef Rubber .

O.K., think a large box, pretty much like a restaurant soup warmer. I large (full size) hotel pan sits in the box with aout a 11/2" (35mm) border all around the pan. When I mold or even dip, I tend to get drips all down the sides, but worse is choc. build-up on the border--where the lip of the hotel pan sits on the warmer.

What I want is a covering that goes over the lip and continues a little into the pan.

Maybe it would work better if I posted a picture or two.

Ah yes, the negative mold, I don't know what kind of material I should make this out of.

I'll get some pics for tommorow

I guess I deserved that comment Omar.

I have used silicone from Silicone, Inc and from Make Your Own Molds. MYOM is easy to use.

I don't really get the "bib" that is being described. I'm going to assume there is a negative for the silicone. Silicone captures a lot of little bubbles that need to be removed. A vacuum is the best device for this but not practical. $$$. I use a two pour technique. Mix using a scale according to manufacturer directions. Then long pour that mix into a new clean bucket. Long pour that mix to make your mold. The long pour is a thin strand of liquid silcone that stretches and reduces the air bubbles. Then I use a vibrator. Yes, that kind of vibrator to agitate the mold for several minutes. Remove as many air bubbles. It's pretty good not perfect.

Wear gloves because it can get messy.

Tell me more about the mold negative. Do you want a thin sheet to cut a bib from for the machine?

Hello Paul,

It would be nice if you shared your experience. After all, this is a forum. I think communicating privately defeats its purpose. Just my humble opinion.

Thanks,

Omar

Hi Edward,

I have silicone mold experience. Send me a note. paul at elemental dash chocolate dot com.

Paul

My "chocoalte room" is visible to the public in our small store, and no matter how hard I try to keep clean, the melters are always a mess,

What I have now are two D+R melters on home made carts, the dark melter has a wheel. I've done the cling-film over the sides thing, and it is easy to pull off the dirty film, but it is a hassle. I do a lot of moulding, and no matter how hard I try, I still get drips down the sides of the melter and on the rim.

The melters are just big s/s boxes, each one holding a full size deep gastro-norm (hotel pan) pan.

What I had in mind was making a "Bib" out of silicone to fit on top of the melter and down the sides, with a collar on the top reaching down about 1" (2 cm) into the tub, and an other collar at the bottom catching drips. If made of food grade silicone, I can just yank off the thing, let the couverture harden, and shake the crumbs right back in.

However, I have no experience with moulding silicone. I will be putting an order in a Chefrubber for other things, and I know they have silicone mixes for sale, but have no idea how to use the stuff.

Any ideas?

Edward

you might have to get them customized and a good start would be clearbag.com

We are looking for shiny waxy paper like the one used for making the After Eight mints. Would any of you know a food paper supplier who would have a selection? We would need about 30kg (66 pounds) to start with. Please see the attached image for reference.

Thank you,

Vincent

Hello Andy

Thanks for your reply. I have already read that post and its a very useful one. Do you think if we are using a good packing with thermocols on the sides and top/bottom, we still have a requirement for aluminum bubble wrap?

We didn't used an aluminum bubble wrap insulator. That seems to be the only difference. Further how about Techni Ice from Australia. Any knowledge on that?

Did you read Clay's shipping Primer? It's really a good one: http://www.thechocolatelife.com/forum/topics/summer-shipping-tips-tricks

I'm lost on how a well sealed, bubbled, mylar'd bag/box, and iced package didn't make it. We ship delicate white chocolate truffles across the country in 3 days during the summer and it still manages to get where it's going without ending up a mess.

If you ever have a real packing question talk to those who make the ice packs. Local to us is Providence Packaging ( www.providencepackaging.com ) if you talk to David Vance he can easily tell you what requirements you need to make any type of shipment. These guys are in the business of staying cool and have studies to boot. You can take it as far as dry icing to as simple as what Clay (and we) do.

We want to sell chocolates online. However, not able to figure out if chocolates can survive for 48 hours even with gel ice.

I have tested this with Techni Ice gel ice, however chocolate melts in 48 Hours and remains good only for 24 hours.

Does any one has any other solution? We tested with good insulated packing box properly sealed. Ice was good enough as per box space.

Is it better to use compound chocolate for courier purpose?